‘Default was never an option’: House GOP member on why he voted ‘Yes’
June 1, 2023Rep. Mike Lawler, R-NY, joins Morning Joe to discuss the House’s passing of the Biden-McCarthy debt ceiling deal and why he voted yes.
Rep. Mike Lawler, R-NY, joins Morning Joe to discuss the House’s passing of the Biden-McCarthy debt ceiling deal and why he voted yes.
The Putnam County News & Recorder
By Eric Gross
Putnam County Congressman Mike Lawler commended House Speaker Kevin McCarthy and President Joe Biden for hammering out a tentative deal that addresses the nation’s debt ceiling. While in Carmel on Sunday attending a Memorial Day observance at the Carmel Veterans Hall, Lawler said in an exclusive interview that capping spending at 1 percent for the next six years has resulted…
By Susan Arbetter
Congressional Republicans and President Biden are in a high-stakes showdown over raising the debt ceiling.
In a letter to Congress, Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen said “it is highly likely” the government will be unable to pay all the nation’s bills after June 1, one week away.
According to Democrats, Republicans are threatening to blow up the economy unless Biden agrees to shrink the social safety net. According to Republicans, Democrats are already tanking the economy by spending recklessly.
The latest, according to the Associated Press, is that President Biden has agreed to hold spending flat at 2023 levels; Republicans say that’s not enough; they are insisting that next year’s spending be less than current levels.
Freshman Republican Rep. Mike Lawler, who represents the 17th Congressional District, which includes all or parts of Rockland, Westchester, Putnam, and Dutchess counties, spoke with Capital Tonight about the debt ceiling debate.
“I have long said that I have three parameters in the debt ceiling that must be met: One, the president and Sen. Schumer must negotiate with Speaker McCarthy in good faith; two, we must enact long-term spending reforms and reduce overall spending; and three, we must not default,” Lawler stated.
According to Reuters, if the U.S. stops cutting checks that fund 25% of the economy, Americans who have retirement accounts would suffer as the stock market “swoons,” and within days, a lack of federal payments would hurt veterans, hike mortgage rates and add to inflation.
When asked if the fight was worth it, Lawler said that House Republicans are the only ones in Washington who have actually voted to lift the debt ceiling.
“Democrats voted against the ‘Limit, Save & Grow Act,’ so they voted against lifting the debt ceiling. The Senate, Sen. Schumer, cannot pass a bill – he has not introduced a bill to be passed in the Senate because he doesn’t have the votes necessary to do it,” Lawler said.
The “Limit, Save & Grow Act,” which is the House Republicans’ debt ceiling proposal, would allow federal discretionary spending to increase just 1% per year, which is below the rate of inflation.
Discretionary spending includes weapons programs, servicemember pay, grants for schools that serve low-income students, rental assistance to house millions of poor and disabled, and money to fund research on cancer and other life-threatening diseases.
Meanwhile, all 213 Democrats in the House on Wednesday agreed to pass a “discharge petition” which is a bill raising the debt limit with no strings attached. The bill would need five Republican votes to pass.
When asked what would have to happen for him to consider signing the discharge petition, Lawler said “a clean debt ceiling bill with no spending cuts cannot pass the U.S. Senate.”
“What Democrats need to come to the realization about is that you need to compromise,” he continued.
Unspent COVID money may be on the negotiating the table.
“We are coming to the deadline, but I think we are making progress,” Lawler said.
By Scott Simon
NPR’s Scott Simon talks with Rep. Mike Lawler about debt ceiling negotiations. This week, President Biden pressed his case in a speech in the moderate Republican’s New York district.
SCOTT SIMON, HOST:
* President Biden spoke to voters about the debt ceiling in Westchester County, N.Y., this week. And in the audience was the district’s congressman, a freshman Republican.
(SOUNDBITE OF SPEECH)
PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: Mike is the kind of guy that when I was in the Congress, he was the kind of Republican I was used to dealing with.
SIMON: That Mike is with us. Congressman Mike Lawler, thanks so much for being with us, Representative.
MIKE LAWLER: Good morning. Thanks for having me.
SIMON: We spoke just a couple of weeks ago. Debt ceiling negotiations have been going on. Any closer to an agreement?
LAWLER: Look, I think we obviously saw a little bit of progress this week with the president and the speaker meeting. I know they are scheduled to meet again this coming week. The staffs of both have met. And, you know, there’s been a little bit of a thawing. But, you know, obviously, when I met with the president on Wednesday, I took the opportunity to encourage him to really find some common ground here. I think all of us have a responsibility to avoid default. And as I said to the president, for me, throughout this entire process, I’ve had three parameters – the president and the speaker must negotiate, we must cut long-term spending and we cannot default. And I think if everybody’s willing to give a little, we’ll be able to get where we need to be.
SIMON: May I ask what was the effect of Donald Trump saying in his CNN town hall appearance, and I quote, “maybe we have to do a default”? He has a lot of influence in your party.
LAWLER: I don’t think it has any effect. I think all of my colleagues understand a default would be cataclysmic for our economy. And frankly, I heard nobody in our conference after those remarks agree with them.
SIMON: Do you think a short-term deal might be needed to buy more time for a longer agreement?
LAWLER: You know, if it comes to that, maybe. But again, the objective here needs to be for everybody to get in the room, do what they need to do and negotiate. This is – you know, we’ve all known this is coming, so this should not be a surprise to anybody. The president took 97 days to meet with the speaker after their first meeting. We need to accelerate the conversations here. I don’t think kicking the can down the road, you know, is going to solve anything here. So the objective needs to be to find a solution as quickly as possible.
SIMON: Representative Lawler, what – I know you don’t want to negotiate in public, but what would you tell fellow Republicans they might have to give up if they’re going to get an agreement?
LAWLER: Look, obviously, we passed the Limit, Save and Grow Act, which would save taxpayers $4.8 trillion over 10 years. The president, you know, has voiced his opposition to that. But I think, you know, there are certainly areas of agreement that we can find within it. The president previously supported work requirements. I don’t see why he would be opposed to that. You know, obviously, unspent and unallocated COVID funds shouldn’t be an issue. So I think there’s areas within the Limit, Save and Grow Act that the president could find agreement with. And the objective, of course, would be, you know, for everybody to give a little bit because that’s the only way you find compromise. So, you know, obviously, Republicans aren’t going to get everything they want out of a final deal, but neither is the president. So I think there’s got to be a little give and take and find some area of agreement.
SIMON: Final quick question – your fellow Congressman, George Santos, pleaded not guilty to 13 felony charges. Does his insistence on not resigning complicate the work of a small Republican majority?
LAWLER: Look, ultimately, he’s not going to be long for this world – we all know that – in terms of elected office. So I’ve called for him to resign. If he had any dignity or decency, he would, but seemingly he does not. And so, you know, the process will play itself out. And, you know, I suspect sooner rather than later, he will no longer be a member of Congress.
SIMON: Congressman Mike Lawler, Republican of New York, thanks so much for being with us.
LAWLER: Thank you.
By Susan Milligan
The president visited the moderate Republican’s district as he make his case for a clean increase in the debt ceiling before an unprecedented default on the nation’s debt.
They’re in different parties, and each wants the other to lose in 2024. But President Joe Biden and freshman GOP Rep. Mike Lawler had a friendly competition Wednesday for a rarely sought title in modern Washington politics: Reasonable Guy.
Biden, in Lawler’s home district to make his case for a clean increase in the debt ceiling, offered a tutorial to voters on why his idea was responsible and the House Republicans’ plan was in bad faith and damaging to Americans.
So-called “MAGA Republicans” are “holding the economy hostage” by insisting on deep budget cuts in exchange for not allowing the country, for the first time, to default on debt the nation has already run up, Biden told a crowd at Westchester Community College in the Hudson Valley.
“They’ve taken control of the House. … They have a speaker who has his job because he yielded to, quote, MAGA elements of the party,” Biden said, referring to the 15 ballots Rep. Kevin McCarthy, California Republican, had to endure to win enough votes to become speaker.
One of the Republicans who voted for the House bill was Lawler, a moderate Republican who shocked national and New York Democrats by defeating former Rep. Sean Patrick Maloney – who was also chairman of the committee to elect more Democrats to the House before he was defeated.
The House bill, Biden explained, did not offer detailed cuts in the text but would take spending back to fiscal 2022 levels, exempting defense, and limit future spending to a below-inflation rate of 1% a year. That would result in a 22% cut in veterans assistance, renewable energy, Pell Grants for college students and other popular programs, the president warned.
But he had kind words for Lawler, who showed up for the event.
“Mike’s on the other team, but you know what? Mike is the kind of guy that, when I was in the Congress, there was a kind of Republican I used to deal with. He’s not one of those MAGA Republicans,” Biden said, referring to extremists aligned with former President Donald Trump who are often identified using his campaign slogan, “Make America Great Again.”
Joking that he didn’t want to get Lawler into trouble with his own GOP constituents or colleagues by saying “something nice” or something negative about the lawmaker, Biden added, “Thanks for coming, Mike, thanks for being here – this is the way we used to do it.”
The Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee is less accommodating, blasting the vulnerable Republican with critical press releases. Ahead of a Lawler visit to a fundraiser in Nashville last month, the DCCC accused Lawler of colluding with “a host of extreme MAGA Republicans … including twice-impeached, indicted former president Donald Trump; Sen. Rick Scott, who has proposed cutting Social Security and Medicare for America’s seniors; and Mike Pence, a fervently anti-choice extremist who applauded a recent federal court decision to suspend FDA approval of mifepristone.”
Biden, however, needs Republicans like Lawler as he endeavors to get the debt ceiling increased before an unprecedented default on the nation’s debt. Raising the debt ceiling does not authorize any increased spending but assures that the federal government – which routinely borrows money – pays its debts for money it has already appropriated and spent.
Republicans are using the debt ceiling bill – historically considered a “must-pass” piece of legislation, since no member of Congress in the past has wanted the economy to implode, possibly kicking off a global recession – to achieve cuts in future spending.
The GOP argues that if it doesn’t force the hand of the White House (and those of Congress itself, which appropriates money for programs), politicians will have no real limits and will continue to increase the deficit (the shortfall in a single year’s budget) and the debt, which is long term. Biden noted that he has already made historic reductions in the debt. However, it is still high.
But Lawler needs Biden – or at least he needs some of Biden’s supporters. The Westchester Republican is one of just 18 Republicans who serve “crossover” districts – places where the GOP candidate won the House seat but Biden took a majority of the vote in the 2020 election.
Even more daunting for Lawler, a top target for Democrats next year, is that he is one of just five Republicans in districts Biden won by double-digit percentages. Lawler won the seat by fewer than 2,000 votes in 2022, beating Maloney with 50.3% of the vote to Maloney’s 49.7%.
That’s not a lot of room for error in a district Biden won by 10 percentage points. And Democrats need to flip just five seats to reclaim the majority in the 2024 elections.
Lawler made morning appearances on CNN, MSNBC and Fox, saying in Reasonable Guy tones that he merely wanted Biden to sit down and negotiate with Republicans, as Biden did when he was vice president.
“I welcome President Biden to my district and am willing to listen to what he has to say today, but we have to engage in a good faith negotiation,” Lawler tweeted ahead of Biden’s visit.
“He told me he wasn’t here to put any pressure on me,” Lawler told reporters after Biden delivered a speech slamming Lawler’s colleagues. “Look, I showed up because I believe very strongly that we all have an obligation to work together,” Lawler added.
Biden said he chatted briefly with Lawler about the debt ceiling and negotiations with McCarthy.
“I thanked him for the courtesy of showing up,” Biden told reporters on the tarmac in Westchester. Then, he headed to a Democratic fundraiser.
By Jeff Coltin
Rep. Mike Lawler was just named the fifth-most vulnerable member in Congress in the country by Roll Call. And the top guy, Rep. George Santos was just arrested on federal charges. But if Santos falsely inserted himself into situations – Goldman Sachs, Spider-Man on Broadway, Congress – Lawler legitimately seems to be in the middle of just about every political story this week. And the Republican is making sure to seize the spotlight. The man who was once a political consultant and Assembly member at the same time seems to have adopted a strategy of getting on TV and talking, talking, talking.
“When life gives you lemons, make lemonade,” Lawler told City & State Wednesday. “The president is coming here. We have a migrant crisis in the city that’s impacting my district. There’s a lot of stuff going on right now, and if given the opportunity I’m going to make sure my voice is heard in my district.”
Sure enough, President Joe Biden is coming to SUNY Westchester Community College Wednesday right by Lawler’s 17th Congressional District, to pressure Republicans to raise the debt limit without major spending cuts. (The college is technically in Democratic Rep. Jamaal Bowman’s district, but it’s right on the border.) Biden chose the swingy suburbs for a reason, as he hopes the party can win back Lawler’s seat, and more, in 2024. But instead of ceding ground, Lawler told the White House he’s going to the speech, “maybe to their surprise.” Signal to Dems he’s a team player? “I talk to anybody and everybody, I always have,” he said, touting some votes across the aisle in Albany and Washington, D.C.
And that anybody and everybody means the press too. He’s on Fox Business telling Biden to meet Republicans in the middle. He’s on CNN, after a mass shooting in Texas, talking up his support for red flag laws, despite most of his party’s opposition to them. And he’s on NY1 scolding New York icon Pat Kiernan for his questions about migrants.
New York City Mayor Eric Adams announced Friday that the city would be paying to shelter some asylum-seekers in a Rockland County hotel, which is in Lawler’s district. So the member of Congress seized the opportunity to call Adams a hypocrite for moving migrants to another area.
Lawler is even, as a fellow first-year New York Republican, in the middle of the Santos saga. Lawler got a $2,900 donation from Santos’ PAC in September and hasn’t reported returning the money, but otherwise was a relatively early Republican calling on Santos to resign. Lawler said Wednesday he’d read part of the indictment and “if he had any decency or dignity or humility he would step down,” Lawler said.
Democrats see Lawler as vulnerable in 2024. A nonprofit political arm of the House Democratic caucus is already trying to tie Lawler to unpopular policies like cutting Social Security and Medicare by running ads and pushing polls in the district. But with Lawler in the middle of everything, it’s also fitting that he’s in the middle of the political spectrum in the House, as sharply partisan as that body is. In his district, which Biden won by about 10 points, Lawler is willing to – softly – criticize the Republican presidential front-runner, Donald Trump. “I think the party needs to move in a different direction,” he said, reiterating comments he first made in November. “I think there needs to be a robust primary … and the former president will have to answer to the voters for his conduct and the things he’s been accused of or found civilly liable for.” But Lawler said he wasn’t supporting any other presidential candidate “at this time.”
After all, he’s got his own race to worry about. With Lawler in the middle of everything, Democrat Liz Gereghty decided that Tuesday was the perfect day to launch her campaign against him. “Today, extreme Republican leaders in Congress – enabled by the current 17th Congressional District Congressman – are threatening our core rights, our safety, and our economic future,” she said in a press release.
Gereghty, who used to own a novelty shop in the district, doesn’t have much of a political record herself, but she’s already gotten national attention, since her sister is Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer, a Democratic Party star.
Lawler said he hadn’t even heard of her, until there was speculation about her running. But with former Rep. Mondaire Jones teasing a campaign too, that’s one big news story that Lawler is planning to stay away from, for now. “I’ll leave that to Democrat primary voters to find out who their nominee will be,” he said.
By Jeremy Diamond
When the slim House Republican majority came into power this year, White House officials said they saw opportunities to work with Biden district Republicans – GOP lawmakers whose districts President Joe Biden carried in 2020.
But nearly four months into the new Congress – and with the debt ceiling showdown now barreling into full crisis mode – many of those Republicans say they’ve received minimal to no engagement from the White House. Other House Republicans with a track record of bipartisanship in the last Congress paint a similar picture.
While the White House’s Office of Legislative Affairs conducted initial outreach to many of those Biden district Republicans earlier this year, the White House has largely been content to tout the bipartisan wins of the previous Congress and use the current class of House Republicans as a foil for the president.
Ahead of the new session in January, administration officials told CNN that the unique political incentives and pressures those Biden district Republicans would face could translate into policy alignment and bipartisan legislation.
At the time, White House aides discussed a series of carrots and sticks they could use with those 18 Biden district Republicans to forge compromise or, perhaps more importantly, peel off moderate Republicans to sink the prospects of GOP leadership initiatives.
The carrots – social invitations to the White House, Air Force One rides and Oval Office sit-downs – have been sparse to non-existent. Meanwhile, the sticks have abounded in recent days as the White House, the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee and outside progressive groups begin to hammer those swing-district Republicans for supporting the House Republican bill to slash spending while raising the debt ceiling into next year. Several outside groups have already launched ad campaigns targeting those Republicans with ads accusing them of cutting health care funding and seeking to repeal clean energy tax breaks creating jobs in their districts.
Absent, as of yet, has been a strategy to drive a wedge between those Republicans and GOP leadership to woo them into supporting a no-strings-attached proposal to raise the debt ceiling. Instead, all 18 Biden-district Republicans voted with the majority of the party to pass the leadership bill that would cut spending and slash key planks of Biden’s domestic agenda alongside a debt ceiling increase.
The White House has repeatedly said it will not negotiate with Republicans over raising the debt ceiling, but beyond public pressure, the White House doesn’t appear to have made a concerted effort to woo those Biden district Republicans to abandon McCarthy and support a clean debt ceiling increase instead.
Rep. Mike Lawler, a freshman Republican from New York, said he came into office assuming the White House would want to engage substantively with members like him whose districts Biden carried in 2020. Instead, he said outreach from the White House has been “minimal.”
“To me, knowing that you have 18 members in districts you carried, I would think you would be trying to do a full court press,” said Lawler, whose district voted for Biden by a 10-point margin. “I haven’t seen any significant outreach on their part to really find pathways forward.”
At Biden’s direction, the White House’s legislative affairs team conducted initial outreach to all of the newly elected House Republicans from Biden districts, establishing a point of contact for each office.
“As I have throughout my career, I’m going to continue to work across the aisle to deliver for the American people. And it’s not always easy, but we did it the first term,” Biden said in his post-midterm election news conference in November, declaring that “the American people want us to work together.”
But many of the Republican lawmakers in question said the engagement did not advance beyond that initial outreach.
“Aside from an initial outreach earlier this year to inquire about Rep. (David) Valadao’s priorities, there’s been no substantive outreach on their part as far as policy or debt ceiling goes,” Valadao spokeswoman Faith Mabry said in an email.
Lawler said his White House liaison has “been great” – engaging on issues like addressing state and local tax deductions, immigration and fentanyl – but he said the conversations have not led anywhere, including to any conversations with senior White House officials.
In a statement, White House deputy press secretary Andrew Bates said the White House has had “frequent engagements” with Republicans in Congress, but declined to further detail those engagements or make White House legislative affairs director Louisa Terrell available for an interview.
“The President’s historic record bears out what his team has made clear to every Republican in Congress in our frequent engagements: he’s eager to keep working across the aisle to deliver more progress for American families,” Bates said. “That eagerness and outreach is why infrastructure week is no longer a joke and the country’s being rebuilt,” he added, citing a meeting with Lawler last month as an example.
Lawler said the April meeting came at his request.
The office of Rep. David Schweikert, a Biden-district Republican from Arizona, said he “has not heard from the White House this Congress.”
Rep. Don Bacon, a four-term moderate with a track record of bipartisanship whose Nebraska district Biden won by 6 points, has met with Biden’s Labor secretary and attorney general, but has had limited engagement with the White House.
“We have not received any communications regarding the debt ceiling,” Bacon spokeswoman Danielle Jensen said. “In fact, it has been crickets from the White House on this issue.”
Other House Republicans who supported Biden’s infrastructure bill but don’t hail from districts Biden won in 2020, including New York Republican Rep. Nicole Malliotakis, painted a similar picture. A spokeswoman for her office said the White House “has not engaged with our office on any substantive policy issues since January.”
Only one GOP congressman contacted by CNN touted regular contact with the White House. A spokeswoman for Rep. Brandon Williams, whose district will be home to a $20 billion Micron semiconductor factor facilitated by the CHIPS & Science Act, said Williams’ office has “weekly communication with the White House, finding bipartisan solutions for the betterment of Central New York and the Mohawk Valley,” including on the Micron investment.
Westchester Congressman Mike Lawler recently wrote about his trip to Taiwan. Rep, Lawler writes, “In combating communism and promoting democracy, Ronald Reagan employed the doctrine of “peace through strength” — a policy that helped end the Cold War, bring about the collapse of the Soviet Union and the Berlin Wall, and put America on the path to global superiority.
“Today, with military and economic threats emanating from the unholy alliance of Russia, China, North Korea and Iran, America must once again lead to preserve peace, ensure prosperity, and advance democracy.
“When Vladimir Putin invaded Ukraine in February 2022, he did not anticipate the unified economic and military response of the United States and our NATO allies or the resolved determination of the Ukrainian people. The consequences for this unjust war have been severe, with crippling economic sanctions and a depleted and demoralized Russian military.
“But Russian aggression didn’t begin in 2022 and the invasion was hardly a surprise. Had America and our allies acted sooner to arm Ukraine and firmly pushed back against Russia, Vladimir Putin would have thought twice about such an invasion.
“We cannot allow history to repeat itself, especially in dealing with the threats and challenges emerging out of the Indo-Pacific. China continues to ramp up global economic coercion, aggression in the Strait of Taiwan, and espionage efforts against the U.S. and our allies. Meanwhile, North Korea threatens U.S. and international security by engaging in arms deals with bad actors and testing missiles within range of nearby countries. These provocations create a unique opportunity for America to strengthen our relationship with Japan, South Korea, the Philippines, Australia, Thailand, India, and Taiwan — an opportunity we cannot afford to squander.
“That is why I, along with House Foreign Affairs Committee Chairman Michael McCaul, R-Texas, and a bipartisan group of colleagues, recently traveled to the Indo-Pacific on a 10-day tour of Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Hawaii, and Guam.
“After meeting with heads of state, foreign ministers, defense officials, and legislators, as well as our own military leaders in the Indo-Pacific Command, the 7th Fleet, and the DMZ, it is abundantly clear that the United States and our allies in the region must implement a clear strategy of deterrence against China and North Korea and create stronger economic and trade relations amongst ourselves — in other words we must implement a policy of peace through strength.
“In recent months, Japan announced plans to double the size of its military and increase defense spending to over 2% of GDP; South Korea increased defense capabilities and announced an expanded role in the Indo-Pacific region; the Philippines signed a maritime framework; and Australia agreed to expand defense cooperation with the United States.
“These actions by our allies are no accident, and they must be the beginning of greater cooperation and hopefully the framework for a NATO-like military alliance in the Indo-Pacific. It’s the only way to effectively deter North Korea’s and China’s blatant military aggression.
“As with Ukraine, some Americans may wonder why it is important for the United States to be involved in these conflicts. The answer is simple: Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Make no mistake, freedom and democracy are worth fighting for and a prosperous America requires it.
“With over 60% of global trade navigating through the Strait of Taiwan and over 90% of the world’s semiconductors being manufactured in Taiwan, any military invasion or blockade in the region would grind America’s economy to a halt and have severe ramifications worldwide. It is in our national interest to ensure that never happens.
“During our meeting with Taiwanese President Tsai Ing-wen, which came two days after her historic meeting with Speaker Kevin McCarthy and a bipartisan congressional delegation in California, she outlined a clear course of action — increased defense training and cooperation, delivery of critical weapons systems, and a unified coalition in the Indo-Pacific to deliver a clear and unambiguous message to China and any other would-be bad actors: don’t even think about it.
“China is our greatest geopolitical adversary and is the single most unifying issue across America. In the 118th Congress we have already seen the passage of significant bipartisan legislation on China, with more to come.
“The time to act is now. America must lead with strength, boldness, and courage. With an eye towards peace and prosperity for all, our Indo-Pacific allies are ready and willing to unite,” writes Rep. Lawler.
By Scott Simon
NPR’s Scott Simon talks with Democratic Congressman Josh Gottheimer and Republican Congressman Mike Lawler about a plan from the House Problem Solvers Caucus to address raising the debt ceiling.
SCOTT SIMON, HOST:
Pressure is growing for President Biden to negotiate to raise the nation’s debt ceiling.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
KEVIN MCCARTHY: The longer President Biden waits to be sensible, to find an agreement, the more likely it becomes that this administration will bumble into the first default in our nation’s history.
SIMON: House Speaker Kevin McCarthy speaking this week. And next week, he plans to introduce a bill that would raise the debt limit to $1.5 trillion, but it would cut spending on some of the president’s priorities, including COVID relief, green energy programs and student debt cancellation. The president wants the debt ceiling raised with no conditions. Meanwhile, the bipartisan Problem Solvers Caucus is offering its own plan. We’re joined now by co-chair Josh Gottheimer, a New Jersey Democrat and caucus member who happens to be traveling in Ghana now. Representative Gottheimer, thanks for being with us.
JOSH GOTTHEIMER: Thanks for having me.
SIMON: And Mike Lawler, a New York Republican who joins us now. Representative Lawler, thank you for being with us.
MIKE LAWLER: Thanks for having me.
SIMON: And, Mr. Lawler, let me address this first question to you. If that Republican plan comes up for a vote next week, will you vote for it?
LAWLER: Yes. You know, my three parameters throughout this debt ceiling negotiation have been very simple. The president must negotiate with the speaker. We have to cut spending over the long term, and we must not default. And I think the plan outlined by Speaker McCarthy certainly creates an opportunity to start the negotiations. The president thus far has refused to do so. And so I think, you know, this is an opportunity to put our cards on the table and move the conversation because at the end of the day, we have an obligation to find compromise and to advance forward a solution here to not only lift our nation’s debt limit, but ultimately get us on the right fiscal path.
SIMON: Congressman Gottheimer, what do you hope the president will do?
GOTTHEIMER: First and foremost, the key here is that we not default. So we have to put the whole question of the debt ceiling and raising the debt ceiling aside. And then we also can, at the same time, address our longer-term fiscal health issues. And that’s acceptable to do both, and it’s a false choice to say that we can’t do both. And what we want is our leadership and the president to sit at the table and work this through. Listen. The proposal that Kevin McCarthy put up, you know, I think even if it passes out of the House, will not go anywhere in the Senate. So whenever they pass that, if they do, it’ll be dead on arrival, and we’ll be back to the same spot. And how do we make sure that we keep sitting down, which is what our caucus believes in, sitting down at the table and getting a solution that achieves both objectives, making sure the debt ceiling is not an issue and also dealing with our long-term fiscal health issues? And that’s what our proposal is really about.
SIMON: What about the call, Congressman Gottheimer, for the creation of a separate fiscal commission? Hasn’t that been tried before and hasn’t worked out?
GOTTHEIMER: I think in this case it’s different. And what we’ve recommended is actually putting a fiscal commission to set that up and suspend the debt ceiling – in other words, take that off the table while this commission does its work, experts, economists come back and make a set of recommendations to us. We must address some of these long-term fiscal health issues. And so I think the commission is a great way to take some of the politics out of this. And let’s be honest. What’s happened here is you’re seeing both sides volley back and forth and play political games with the fiscal future of our country, including playing around with the debt ceiling, which would literally put the full faith and credit of the United States at risk. Only the government of China will win if we send our economy off the cliff and downgrade our credit and put everyone’s 401(k)s and savings on the line.
SIMON: How serious is any discussion about the nation’s debt if Social Security and Medicare, biggest sources of spending, are apparently off the table? Congressman Lawler, do you want to take that?
LAWLER: Sure. I mean, look. I’ve said from the very beginning that we need to protect Social Security and Medicare. As it stands right now, both programs are going to have serious challenges over the next decade. And I think part of what Josh is alluding to with the creation of a fiscal commission is to look at what we need to do long-term in a serious, sober and bipartisan way to address the challenges to both of those programs. I think in the immediate, we cannot default. We have to pay our previous debts incurred.
SIMON: Do both of you worry that given today’s fractious political environment, even as you say default can’t occur, in fact, it can and will occur if a majority of people in Congress decide that they want to vote in accord with their own best political interests? Won’t they?
LAWLER: In all of my conversations, I’ve not spoken to one person who thinks default would be a good idea. So I do not think at the end of the day that we are going to be in a situation where we default. I think, unfortunately, the politics sometimes drags this out in a way that is unnecessary and unhelpful. But I think we will certainly get to a solution. And as, you know, I think we’re showing here in this conversation, people like Josh and I are very focused on finding solutions and common ground and solving problems.
SIMON: Representative Gottheimer?
GOTTHEIMER: Mike is spot on, and – you know, which is why you want reasonable voices on the table. Am I concerned? Deeply concerned. Do I believe we’ve got enough people who are reasonable, who understand the gravity? Yes. But that doesn’t mean, to your point, that we can just hope that it happens. We’ve got to actually work to make it happen, which is what we’re doing. And my hope and confidence is that in these next weeks, given how this could be a summer – early summer issue, like, a June issue, that everybody sits at the table until we figure this out because we can’t afford not to.
SIMON: Representative Josh Gottheimer, Democrat, and Republican Congressman Mike Lawler, both members of the Problem Solvers Caucus. Thanks so much for being with us.
GOTTHEIMER: Thanks for having us.
LAWLER: Thank you.
WASHINGTON – Following a meeting in Moscow on Monday described by China as a peacemaking effort between Chinese President Xi Jinping and Russian President Vladimir Putin, Congressman Mike Lawler (R, NY-17) issued a statement about his concerns surrounding the visit. The meeting was Xi Japing’s first trip to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine.
“I am deeply concerned about Xi Jinping’s visit to Moscow today,” said Congressman Lawler. “The fact that Xi would give Vladimir Putin the international diplomatic recognition he so desperately craves indicates how bad of an actor China is on the global stage.”
Lawler called Xi and Putin “a pernicious pair who are busy plotting dominance of Eurasia. The United States and our allies must continue to apply diplomatic pressure to ensure that the entire Eurasian region does not fall under their control and influence.”
In a letter published in the Chinese state media that turned heads around the globe, Putin welcomed Xi to Moscow calling Xi his “good old friend.”
